Talk:True Colors
Did Luthor want the Team to procure the additive? When Luthor said "As anticipated", he meant that he expect the Team to procure the additive, not necessarily that he wanted them to. If he didn't see their effectiveness as a problem, why would he want to form his own team of young enforcers? Cari1994 (talk) 23:48, January 26, 2013 (UTC) :If they expected them to procure the additive, then they allowed them to do so. They could have easily reinforced security to prevent that. If they didn't want to prevent it, then they wanted them to acquire it. ― Thailog 23:59, January 26, 2013 (UTC) ::I have to agree with Cari on this one. Lex sounded resigned rather than happy when he said it. Expectation does not equal desire, and while they could have boosted security to attempt to prevent them getting a sample, they couldn't guarantee it. And it probably wasn't worth the effort given that the Reach drinks would shortly be in public hands where they could be readily analysed by the League. – Psypher 00:13, January 27, 2013 (UTC) :::Sorry, but he didn't sound resigned at all. "As anticipated. The team was quite effective". He said that in the same casual tone. Regardless, I'm fine with changing "want" to "expect". ― Thailog 00:22, January 27, 2013 (UTC) ::::You know how Luthor sounds casual about everything, even when he's not happy. Plus, he didn't have that smug smile on his face when he said it. And as I said, if he didn't see their effectiveness as a problem, why would he feel the need to form his own team of young enforcers? And "how did they expect the team to procure the additive?" wouldn't be a good question because these guys are master strategists. They expect almost everything. Cari1994 (talk) 00:34, January 27, 2013 (UTC) :Think you're reading that wrong...He didn't see the Team's effectiveness as a problem, but a weapon.Regulus22 00:37, January 27, 2013 (UTC) ::Even so, and even if Luthor's diction and tone didn't sound resigned, his body language did show that he was not happy about his answer to Vandal Savage's question. Cari1994 (talk) 03:43, January 30, 2013 (UTC) ::I agree with Cari. He didn't necessarily like them getting the additive, but they figured preventing such a theft would be impossible. Hence his comment about the Team's efficiency. HOWEVER why did he prevent Mercy from deploying security? Was he trying to prevent them from seeing Black Beetle? Because if they were there, Alpha would be captured easily. Honestly that's the only justification I can come up with, and still say he didn't want the Team to get the additive. - Edited by Zergrinch - 04:06, January 30, 2013 (UTC) :::I disagree. And body language? lol! The additive was not of public knowledge. The Team overheard it from the Scientist. So this at least begs the question: why did they anticipate the Team to procure a sample of something kept secret? That's more pertinent than the "how" which is questioning the mechanics of this world. Reply to how: inventories, video cameras, etc. ― Thailog 01:09, February 2, 2013 (UTC) :::Entirely with Thailog here, how I read the scene as well. As to Zergritch however,he answered in the episode, they would be redundant. What can a couple lexcorp run of the mill security guards do if the main enforcer of the Reach can't do something? They'd get in the way and get injured. if anything. . And given some loglines where there's hints of Lex sending the runaways to help the team, I'd say that Lex wanting them to have some clues iss more worthy of questioning. Regulus22 01:17, February 2, 2013 (UTC) ::::In case you haven't taken anthropology, body language is a good way of showing emotions and thoughts that are not spoken verbally and Greg would have made sure to incorporate motives into everything that is shown, including body language. As for the inventories and video cameras thing that Thailog mentioned, that was just one little chunk that Robin took amongst tons of additive, so they couldn't have possibly missed that little chunk when counting the inventory and in case you didn't notice, Robin and Arsenal hacked the video cameras so they wouldn't have shown them stealing the additive. And as for why did Luthor expect the Team to procure the additive, like I said, the Light are master chess players, so they would expect almost everything. And as for "What can a couple lexcorp run of the mill security guards do if the main enforcer of the Reach can't do something?", in case you didn't notice, Black Beetle was pounding them and Luthor would have never expected Green Beetle to show up and help the kids out. Cari1994 (talk) 01:40, February 2, 2013 (UTC) :::::I don't see Luthor facepalming or grinding his teeth. So body language, right now, is just a convenient crutch that you are overrating to support your opinion, while underrating facts that contradict it. And in case you didn't notice, "questions should not focus on internal logic". There are only a bazillion ways for Luthor to know that the Team took the sample. It's his facility, do you really think that there aren't hidden cameras? Also, you aren't supposed to answer questions with your interpretations. "Luthor would have never expected Green Beetle to show up and help the kids out"? Maybe that was part of the plan, if GB really is a mole. And you're doing it again when you say "the Light are master chess players, so they would expect almost everything". Really? They sure didn't expect to get played in "Usual Suspects". And I know for sure that I've told you repeatedly to discuss first instead of engaging in edits wars, especially when your edit goes against policy, and especially when you have two people in favor of an edit you just undid. Asking "how" something happened unless it contradicts something previously established is not a valid question. :::::For the last time, stop imposing your opinion onto others. Just because you believe this and that, it does not make it absolute. Therefore, when you say something like "like I said" and then restore your edit before anyone gives a response, you are being disrespectful and disruptive. Learn to wait and respect other's opinions instead of imposing yours as definitive. ― Thailog 02:13, February 2, 2013 (UTC) ::::::No, Luthor wasn't facepalming or grinding his teeth, but he wasn't smiling and he was folding his fingers and he had his hand on his head when sliding over pictures of the runaways. And from what I'm reading here, you're also using internal logic to back up your thesis that Luthor wanted the Team to procure the additive and that he could have found out that he did with hidden cameras or through checking the inventory, thus focusing your question on internal logic. Plus, you're also using interpretations to answer questions and restoring your edits before someone gives a response, as well as undoing edits that you have three people in favor of (Psypher, Zergrinch, and myself). Plus, does "How did L-Ron have access to the Krolotean database?" contradict something previously established? If not, then why is it still on the "Questions" section of the "Cornered" page? Lastly, you're also expecting us to believe that Luthor did want the Team to procure the additive even when your interpretation of how Luthor was using the word "anticipate" is not absolute, thus imposing your opinions as definitive. Cari1994 (talk) 03:17, February 2, 2013 (UTC) :This is ridiculous, Cari well never see what we interpret as a simple question, I suggest removing both, we'll see eventually who's right, that Lex wants the Team to have some advantage(as I said, Loglines for future episodes support Thailog and my question more.) and that he wanted them to have the additive. Likewise, myself and Thailog consider it obvious how they knew about the additive and why they didn't send more people. Remove both and stop needless argument, or overall, this is getting to a point where I could bring in entropy calculations from physics as evidence and have it as applicable as these arguments.Regulus22 03:37, February 2, 2013 (UTC) ::Fair enough. BTW, Regulus, Greg says that Red Volcano will make an appearance in "Runaways", so your "misfits=runaways" might not be correct and thus, the logline for "The Hunt" might not support Thailog's thesis after all. Also, Thailog, please consider the words in my last comment and look at all of your comments in this section before denying what I've said. Cari1994 (talk) 04:38, February 2, 2013 (UTC) :::Don't see how that contradicts, but that's not exactly something to discuss on the talk page, take it to the Runaways discussion page and I'll gladly discuss that there.Regulus22 04:56, February 2, 2013 (UTC) # I was not attempting to engage you in a discussion about Luthor's body language. I was trying to make it clear that such a thing is ridiculous. Apparently you don't pick up subtle hints, # Can you READ? I didn't say we can't use internal logic to answer questions. I said we can't QUESTION internal logic unless internal logic contradicts something previously established. For instance, Luthor is known to be a resourceful man, like planting trackers on his shields, or triggers on his clones. So he very well could have other means to find out what goes on on his premises. Therefore, asking how he knew the Team took a sample can be inferred (rule #6) and more importantly is not a question derived from the plot. Knowing how he knows is irrelevant. # If you're going to try to turn my arguments against me then make sure you get the facts straight. I did not "restore my edits" or "undid edits" which had "three people in favor of". My original question said "why did they want". I didn't change your question back to that. I changed your question because it did not conform to policy! # The question about L-Ron does not focus on internal logic; it focus on plot. Despero and L-Ron have not been established to have any kind of relationship with the Kroloteans, so how they had access to a database of an unrelated alien species is perfectly acceptable. # Excuse me? I am imposing my interpretation? Have I restored my original question since this discussion began, unlike you? Haven't I proposed to compromise, unlike you? You're the one who keeps editing before we've reached a consensus. Are you that obstinate that you must always be right and can never admit fault? # I suggest you take your own advice and read carefully other people's statements before jumping in half-cocked shooting in every directions with misinterpretations and untruths. And if you can't understand how the questions section works, then please stay out of it in the future. # Now, I've told you countless times to wait until a discussion is over before making a definitive edit. Regulus suggested to remove the questions. Just because you agreed to it that doesn't mean your opinion was final. And yet, you removed them before anyone else had a chance to disagree. I'm going to let this be, because the alternative would be blocking you for repeated offenses, but this won't go on forever, Cari, and I'm fed up with it. Learn how to operate in a community. ― Thailog 10:46, February 2, 2013 (UTC) 'Title' Might the title also be a reference to Arsenal's actions during the mission? He blew cover, disobeyed orders, endangered himself, his teammates and the objective all to be a nuisance to Luthor. In a way you might say he also showed his true colors in this episode. Time Zone Goof I'm going to need more consensus before this can be added to the episode. And perhaps I may be going about this the wrong way, so keep me honest, folks. #The date stamp in Smallville was April 8: 16:38 CDT. Central Daylight Time is 5 hours behind UTC, so UTC is April 8: 21:38. Since Alpha Squad stayed in the bathroom for a few hours, it should be April 9 UTC time, perhaps 4 hours after. So let's put the Team's raid at approximately April 9, 01:38 UTC. #When Lex Luthor assessed the damage, it was still night time. Dawn would be approximately April 9: 05:00 CDT, or April 9: 10:00 UTC. This is a maximum -- any businessman would want to check in much closer to 01:38 than 10:00. #The date stamp in Mongolia was April 9: 07:12 ICT. Indochina time is 7 hours ahead of UTC, so Sportsmaster had a little chat with the Light on April 9, 00:12 UTC. #The date stamp in the Atlantic Ocean was April 9, 00:13 EDT. Eastern Daylight Time is four hours behind UTC, so Vandal Savage dropped off Psimon on April 9, 04:13 UTC. The goof here is -- are we supposed to believe that Vandal Savage had a meeting in Mongolia, and four hours later, he dropped by at the Atlantic Ocean -- after stopping by at the Middle East to borrow a psychic? And then less than 0-6 hours after, he was chilling in Smallville, Kansas? Something doesn't sound right, as the bad guys don't have access to the Zeta network! - Edited by Zergrinch - 16:39, January 24, 2013 (UTC) :Boom tube? --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 16:41, January 24, 2013 (UTC) ::Maybe. But so far the series has always portrayed boom tubes as used for inter-stellar travel, not intra-planetary travel. Plus Savage was on-board the Flyer. The top speed on that thing must be quite impressive. - Edited by Zergrinch - 16:43, January 24, 2013 (UTC) :::Magic? I always figured Klarion was recruited to be their personal transporter more than anything else... ― Thailog 16:57, January 24, 2013 (UTC) :::Quite possible as well! Although honestly I think that's a stretch expecting the embodiment of chaos to be your personal chaffeur :) - Edited by Zergrinch - 17:06, January 24, 2013 (UTC) ::::Maybe he likes it... It's not like he does much else... ― Thailog 17:38, January 24, 2013 (UTC) :::Boom tubes probably aren't just interplanetary - the League never thought to look for the Rimbor leaguers in space even though they knew they returned by boom tube. I find it hard enough to believe Space Cop John Stewart never thought of that in five years as it is. Though a really fast (possibly Reach) jet seems more likely. – Psypher 19:01, January 24, 2013 (UTC) "Justice League" cameo? Does the Justice League title that Godfrey uses during his smear campaign (Justice League: Criminals) viable for trivia or something? Because I swear that's a nod to the Justice League cartoon. It looks nigh indentical. 00:00, January 27, 2013 (UTC) : yes it is the same and it has been used before if my memory serves, just dont ask for a specific episode. Zodisgod (talk) 00:09, January 27, 2013 (UTC) : Induction of the new League members. It's on the ID card. The Usual Suspects. LexCorp Farms I think I'm correct in saying that Lex's office shown in this episode is his office at LexCorp Farms, not his office in LexCorp Metropolis, since he and Mercy hear/feel the explosion. Several pages have the timestamp location listed as LexCorp, but I just wanted to get some agreement before I change it. ― Psypher 16:10, February 19, 2013 (UTC) :Yeah, I thought it was obvious. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 16:13, February 19, 2013 (UTC)